Manchester United FC Official Thread

Kuled wrote:All religion is fake, the powers used were all illusions used from the apple of Eden.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:

Eternal Witcher wrote:

There are choices, there are consequences. You aren't told to do anything other than have faith and morality. Just a few simple guidelines, which enhance one's perspective anyway.

It's not a free choice if there is a horrific consequence. If I have you tied up with thumbscrews on you and tell you to say "RR is exceptional" or I'll squash your thumbs, are you doing it out of free will?

Laurencio wrote:

The_Quilo wrote:

Nobody deserves eternal punishment for sin? You get to choose that because, you make the universe along with billions of stars, right?

Sin might not seem so bad to the sin-twisted minds of humans, but to God it is worse than the murdering of a person, and in many countries the sentence for pre-meditated murder is death.

You cannot judge the evil of sin based on human-kind's distorted morals and beliefs. If our 'morals' are telling us gay marriage is right, then I don't trust humans to be the ultimate say-so on how bad sin is. I would rather trust the maker of the 'moral' concept. When you want to accurately know how good, or bad, a product is, you do not go to a 2 year-old who uses the product occasionally. No, you go to the maker, the inventor of the product.

And all my christian friends say that they love god because they have a relationship with him, and he loved them enough to send his own son (the one who hand-crafted everything from every molecule in your body to every star in the universe) to die for them.

God allowed Jesus to die because Jesus' death is the only thing that could ever make humans acceptable to God. Without Jesus' blood, we would be considered unclean no matter how much good, or how righteous we are.

And why does God not shut down hell? Because then there would be no choice. No decision before good and evil. How can a good and holy god force us to believe in him? No, there must be an alternative. He would be a dictator, not a God. If your parents, from the day you were born to today, dictated every decision you ever made, would you think they are perfect? Would you love them? Exactly.

I have been researching alot recently on the Christianity concept recently, and these are the answers I find for most of my similar questions...

And you have the audacity to put yourself in God's position and speak for God? Seriously, how do you know that "sins" are as bad as you are telling us? How do you know that the 7 deadly sins lead to hell, and not just death, as they do in Judaism.

Newsflash for you, there is no concrete mention of gay marriage in the bible. The basis of the whole argument is Genesis and the creation of Adam and Eve. That's it. That's the whole basis for the homosexuality is evil argument. It's almost as laughable an excuse as the priests can not marry argument, which has no basis in the bible other than "jesus wasn't married". Laugable, truly laughable. It's incredible how many people disregard the "Only god can judge others", and "Love thy neighbor" references. Suddenly we can decide what's evil? Pretentious if you ask me, and contrary to every teaching Jesus spoke of. Who did he protect more than anyone? The prostitutes, the thieves, the murderers, the lepars, the peasants. Basically the unwanted and "unworthy". How do his followers respond? By judging everyone in their path, calling people unworthy of salvation and condemning people to hell. Classical humanity.

By all means, please explain how dying for all of humanity's sins suddenly translates to "died for those who believe the right dogma, which incidentally have changed hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past 2000 years."

There are hundreds of branches of Christianity, most of which would seem entirely foreign to anyone practicing the "big two", Catholicism and Protestantism. What about those? They believe in a Jesus, however their beliefs and practices are wildly different to that of the big two, are they sinners as well? Non believers? Who is to say that the religion that originated in Italy is any better than that which originated in Jerusalem, or in Ethiopia?

As for shutting down hell. God by definition is all powerful. If God felt that hell was unnecessary and messy, by definition, God could shut down hell and still give us free will. That's the definition of all powerful. You can't use the argument "then free will would be gone", because by virtue of being all powerful God would transcend any limitations.

The_Quilo wrote:

Never did I say to take my word as gospel. This is all my perception. All I know is that there are verses in the bible in which God says the punishment for sin is death. Obviously he is deadly (pun intended) serious about how bad sin is. Obviously one sin is enough for a person's life to rightfully end. You tell me how serious that sounds.
"
Sure God did not directly say "Thou shalt not be homosexual", but why would he? Nobody in that day and age was gay, and God is not going to spell out for us every detail of life, some things we just have to figure out for ourselves based on the character of God and what we think he would do in this situation. Can you honestly say that, if God were among us today, Jesus would condone gay marriage? Why must we stray from the perfect model he presented us?

And God does not say 'only I can judge' he simply states that you should take the log out of your own eye before you attempt to take the spec out of a brothers (in other words, make sure you are not hypocritical). And I am not cataloging as a fact which sins are evil and which are not. All I know is that sin is evil. Period. There is no 'lesser sin'.

Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors because "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." And the disciples did judge, just like anyone else would have judged. Why? Because they are human, and humans make mistakes and sin. The difference, is that followers of God can ask for forgivness and are forgiven.

No, Jesus died for everyone, even the non Christian murderer. You choose whether you accept that or not. Followers of Jesus are simply the ones who have accepted it, and atheists are the ones who have not accepted it. That, in no way, means that Jesus did not die for you.

In the end, it does not matter at all what 'sect' you are from. God judges the heart. Theoretically, you could be from any sect of any religion in the world, so long as you believe that God died, and rose again, for you. You people seem to believe that God is going to say "Your part of the Protestant group? Ok, enter Heaven. Your a Catholic? Oh no, Hell's that way."

As for shutting down hell, I never said I had all the answers. Some questions I will have to wait until heaven to ask God.

Laurencio wrote:

The_Quilo wrote:

Never did I say to take my word as gospel. This is all my perception. All I know is that there are verses in the bible in which God says the punishment for sin is death. Obviously he is deadly (pun intended) serious about how bad sin is. Obviously one sin is enough for a person's life to rightfully end. You tell me how serious that sounds.
"
Sure God did not directly say "Thou shalt not be homosexual", but why would he? Nobody in that day and age was gay, and God is not going to spell out for us every detail of life, some things we just have to figure out for ourselves based on the character of God and what we think he would do in this situation. Can you honestly say that, if God were among us today, Jesus would condone gay marriage? Why must we stray from the perfect model he presented us?

And God does not say 'only I can judge' he simply states that you should take the log out of your own eye before you attempt to take the spec out of a brothers (in other words, make sure you are not hypocritical). And I am not cataloging as a fact which sins are evil and which are not. All I know is that sin is evil. Period. There is no 'lesser sin'.

Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors because "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." And the disciples did judge, just like anyone else would have judged. Why? Because they are human, and humans make mistakes and sin. The difference, is that followers of God can ask for forgivness and are forgiven.

No, Jesus died for everyone, even the non Christian murderer. You choose whether you accept that or not. Followers of Jesus are simply the ones who have accepted it, and atheists are the ones who have not accepted it. That, in no way, means that Jesus did not die for you.

In the end, it does not matter at all what 'sect' you are from. God judges the heart. Theoretically, you could be from any sect of any religion in the world, so long as you believe that God died, and rose again, for you. You people seem to believe that God is going to say "Your part of the Protestant group? Ok, enter Heaven. Your a Catholic? Oh no, Hell's that way."

As for shutting down hell, I never said I had all the answers. Some questions I will have to wait until heaven to ask God.

Death and eternal damnation are not the same. In fact they are quite different in scope and effect.

Homosexuality was quite well established by the time Jesus lived. Just look at Greece, or even Macedonia. Alexander the Great is quite well known to have been involved in homosexual orgies and what not, that happened roughly 300 years before Jesus was born. It's a tad unlikely that Alexander the Great's preferences, and Roman decadence, weren't known in a Roman controlled territory.

You claim that you don't cataloging sins as evil etc, yet you pretend to speak for God, as did whomever wrote leviticus (not that I'm going to go into argument about the validity of scripture). You pretend to know how God, the almighty and infallible, feels about certain actions, thoughts and drives. You put yourself in God's position, and pretend to speak for him, despite being very much fallible (by virtue of being Human).

So you say, Jesus hung out with the sinners (tax collectors are sinners?). He came to save the sinners, so how are modern day sinners any different? If Jesus came back would he laud people who judge others and pretend to have moral superiority and speak of condemning people to hell, would he guide them to eternal salvation and doom the rest to eternal damnation, or would he try to save the sinners?

Jesus died for all of man's sins. Therefore no one deserves eternal damnation. In fact it's in the preference of God that no one suffers eternal damnation. To condemn anyone to eternal damnation, despite being sinners, is in fact the last thing God would want. Everyone sins, or so you said, so why is that one sin is any different than another? You said earlier there are no "lesser" sins, sins are evil period. Well how can you condemn one group of sinners as evil, and another as worthy of salvation?

How far off can a "sect" be to be considered wrong then? There were 12 disciples, and there are hundreds of different interpretations of their teachings and religious sects. How do you determine which are right and which are wrong? What about those that don't believe Jesus was God, rather God's son. Those who believe that the Catholic church through their idol worship (saints) are unworthy of salvation, those who directly see their christian brethren as unworthy of salvation and consider them heretics and condemn them every chance they get?

Also, how much would you have to believe? The "Those who do not accept the kingdom of heaven as a child would, will never gain entry" (Never read King James, so I dunno the phrasing). Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone goes through periods of doubts, no? I'm quite certain doubt is central part of faith, doubt and overcoming that doubt. I'm not sure if complete faith even exists, faith without doubt seems... impossible.

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Answer my question you shitcunt!

The_Quilo wrote:

ResurrectionRooney wrote:Answer my question you shitcunt!

1. That would never happen, as God is holy, so why even discuss it?

2. God would not send me to hell, even if that was blasphemy. It is more than o.k. to doubt if a command is really from God or not.

Danno wrote:It is fair to say I dislike Manchester United football club.

Jaetinh wrote:http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/Actualidad/1330105695782/noticia/Previa/Corazon_Classic_Match_at_the_Santiago_Bernabeu_Stadium.htm

Real Madrid and Manchester United veterans will come face to face for a good cause

The Corazon Classic Match's third edition will pit Real Madrid veterans against those of Manchester United for a good cause at the Santiago Bernabeu Stadium. The previous two editions against veterans of AC Milan and Bayern Munich were a resounding success and it is expected this year's to be one as well; it's proceeds will be destined to the Realmadrid Foundation's academies in Africa.

Fans at the stadium will have a chance to see legendary players in action again. Real Madrid's side will feature members of the great Quinta del Buitre and 14 of the footballers who won the team's last three UCL titles: Roberto Carlos, Sanchis, Hierro, Redondo, Illgner, Morientes, Amavisca, Karanka, Contreras, Fernando Sanz, Chendo, Helguera, Zidane and Figo.

PREVIOUS EDITIONS OF THE CORAZON CLASSIC MATCH
DATE MATCH SCORE
30/05/2010 Real Madrid Veterans - Milan Glorie 4-3
05/06/2011 Real Madrid Veterans - Bayern Munich 8-3
The most honoured side in English football history (19 league titles) will be represented by the following star players: Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Edwin van der Sar, Denis Irwin, Jesper Blomqvist, Teddy Sheringham, Lee Martin, Lee Sharpe, Quinton Fortune, Raymond Van der Gouw and Ronny Johnsen.

The icing on the cake will be seeing Collina, who has been named by the IFFHS as the best referee in the last 25 years, officiating the clash with Spanish ref Carlos Velasco Carballo, who will represent the Spanish Committee in the Euro 2012.
ROSTER

Real Madrid: Buyo, Contreras, Illgner, Roberto Carlos, Chendo, Rojas, Velasco, Hierro, Sabido, Sanchis, Fernando Sanz, Ramis, Karanka, Garcia Cortes, Redondo, Helguera, Zidane, Martin Vazquez, Figo, Butragueño, Amavisca, Alfonso, Ivan Perez, Santillana, Morientes.

Manchester United: Van der Sar, Lee Martin, Denis Irwin, Quinton Fortune, Ronny Johnsen, Bryan Robson, Dion Dublin, Andy Cole, Teddy Sheringham, Lee Sharpe, Clayton Blackmore, Jesper Blomquvist, Raimond van der Gouw, Dwight Yorke, Michael Thomas.

The match is today at 19, I'm informing you in case you didn't know, I don't follow this forum much anymore so I wouldn't know if people have been talking about this in here.

Danno wrote:

Jaetinh wrote:http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/Actualidad/1330105695782/noticia/Previa/Corazon_Classic_Match_at_the_Santiago_Bernabeu_Stadium.htm

Real Madrid and Manchester United veterans will come face to face for a good cause

The Corazon Classic Match's third edition will pit Real Madrid veterans against those of Manchester United for a good cause at the Santiago Bernabeu Stadium. The previous two editions against veterans of AC Milan and Bayern Munich were a resounding success and it is expected this year's to be one as well; it's proceeds will be destined to the Realmadrid Foundation's academies in Africa.

Fans at the stadium will have a chance to see legendary players in action again. Real Madrid's side will feature members of the great Quinta del Buitre and 14 of the footballers who won the team's last three UCL titles: Roberto Carlos, Sanchis, Hierro, Redondo, Illgner, Morientes, Amavisca, Karanka, Contreras, Fernando Sanz, Chendo, Helguera, Zidane and Figo.

PREVIOUS EDITIONS OF THE CORAZON CLASSIC MATCH
DATE MATCH SCORE
30/05/2010 Real Madrid Veterans - Milan Glorie 4-3
05/06/2011 Real Madrid Veterans - Bayern Munich 8-3
The most honoured side in English football history (19 league titles) will be represented by the following star players: Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Edwin van der Sar, Denis Irwin, Jesper Blomqvist, Teddy Sheringham, Lee Martin, Lee Sharpe, Quinton Fortune, Raymond Van der Gouw and Ronny Johnsen.

The icing on the cake will be seeing Collina, who has been named by the IFFHS as the best referee in the last 25 years, officiating the clash with Spanish ref Carlos Velasco Carballo, who will represent the Spanish Committee in the Euro 2012.
ROSTER

Real Madrid: Buyo, Contreras, Illgner, Roberto Carlos, Chendo, Rojas, Velasco, Hierro, Sabido, Sanchis, Fernando Sanz, Ramis, Karanka, Garcia Cortes, Redondo, Helguera, Zidane, Martin Vazquez, Figo, Butragueño, Amavisca, Alfonso, Ivan Perez, Santillana, Morientes.

Manchester United: Van der Sar, Lee Martin, Denis Irwin, Quinton Fortune, Ronny Johnsen, Bryan Robson, Dion Dublin, Andy Cole, Teddy Sheringham, Lee Sharpe, Clayton Blackmore, Jesper Blomquvist, Raimond van der Gouw, Dwight Yorke, Michael Thomas.

The match is today at 19, I'm informing you in case you didn't know, I don't follow this forum much anymore so I wouldn't know if people have been talking about this in here.

Please stay on topic.

The_Quilo wrote:

Laurencio wrote:

Death and eternal damnation are not the same. In fact they are quite different in scope and effect.

Homosexuality was quite well established by the time Jesus lived. Just look at Greece, or even Macedonia. Alexander the Great is quite well known to have been involved in homosexual orgies and what not, that happened roughly 300 years before Jesus was born. It's a tad unlikely that Alexander the Great's preferences, and Roman decadence, weren't known in a Roman controlled territory.

You claim that you don't cataloging sins as evil etc, yet you pretend to speak for God, as did whomever wrote leviticus (not that I'm going to go into argument about the validity of scripture). You pretend to know how God, the almighty and infallible, feels about certain actions, thoughts and drives. You put yourself in God's position, and pretend to speak for him, despite being very much fallible (by virtue of being Human).

So you say, Jesus hung out with the sinners (tax collectors are sinners?). He came to save the sinners, so how are modern day sinners any different? If Jesus came back would he laud people who judge others and pretend to have moral superiority and speak of condemning people to hell, would he guide them to eternal salvation and doom the rest to eternal damnation, or would he try to save the sinners?

Jesus died for all of man's sins. Therefore no one deserves eternal damnation. In fact it's in the preference of God that no one suffers eternal damnation. To condemn anyone to eternal damnation, despite being sinners, is in fact the last thing God would want. Everyone sins, or so you said, so why is that one sin is any different than another? You said earlier there are no "lesser" sins, sins are evil period. Well how can you condemn one group of sinners as evil, and another as worthy of salvation?

How far off can a "sect" be to be considered wrong then? There were 12 disciples, and there are hundreds of different interpretations of their teachings and religious sects. How do you determine which are right and which are wrong? What about those that don't believe Jesus was God, rather God's son. Those who believe that the Catholic church through their idol worship (saints) are unworthy of salvation, those who directly see their christian brethren as unworthy of salvation and consider them heretics and condemn them every chance they get?

Also, how much would you have to believe? The "Those who do not accept the kingdom of heaven as a child would, will never gain entry" (Never read King James, so I dunno the phrasing). Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone goes through periods of doubts, no? I'm quite certain doubt is central part of faith, doubt and overcoming that doubt. I'm not sure if complete faith even exists, faith without doubt seems... impossible.

When did I condemn you or any other Christian sect? Other religions is a different story, as they are serving a different god, but even then I try not to condemn them.

I repeat, a sect is wrong if they do NOT confess that Jesus is their Savior and do NOT believe he died and rose again for them.

I know God's preference is that nobody is damned. That is my preference too. If it were possible I, and God, wish that everyone could enter heaven. The fact that he died for everyone DOES NOT, however, mean that everyone is going to heaven. You have to believe and confess what I wrote earlier.

And once again, I repeat, sects don't matter one bit when it comes to salvation. ALL THAT MATTERS is the heart of the people.

Also, I believe this is the verse: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

He means that we must have the innocence of little children. Never does the Bible say it is wrong to doubt. In fact, it encourages doubts and questions. It encourages you to check out other religions and ask questions about the validity of the scriptures.

Eternal Witcher wrote:Danny, why did you try to kill yourself?

Gegilworld93 wrote:Karanka is Mou's assistant isn't he?

Madrid might as well give Zizou a player contract again for the amount of times he plays in charity matches/testimonials

Laurencio wrote:

Eternal Witcher wrote:Danny, why did you try to kill yourself?

Danny tried to kill himself?

ViVaRooney wrote:nani scored for portugal

Potugal 1-2 Turkey atm

Kuled wrote:

ViVaRooney wrote:nani scored for portugal

Potugal 1-2 Turkey atm

This is what started it

Laurencio wrote:

The_Quilo wrote:

When did I condemn you or any other Christian sect? Other religions is a different story, as they are serving a different god, but even then I try not to condemn them.

I repeat, a sect is wrong if they do NOT confess that Jesus is their Savior and do NOT believe he died and rose again for them.

I know God's preference is that nobody is damned. That is my preference too. If it were possible I, and God, wish that everyone could enter heaven. The fact that he died for everyone DOES NOT, however, mean that everyone is going to heaven. You have to believe and confess what I wrote earlier.

And once again, I repeat, sects don't matter one bit when it comes to salvation. ALL THAT MATTERS is the heart of the people.

Also, I believe this is the verse: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

He means that we must have the innocence of little children. Never does the Bible say it is wrong to doubt. In fact, it encourages doubts and questions. It encourages you to check out other religions and ask questions about the validity of the scriptures.

Many of these sects could just as easily be another religion. The Jesus we know from the New Testament put together in Niccea, differs quite a bit from some of the scripture these "sects" rely on.

So because 70% of the planet has been "unfortuante" enough to be born in non-christian parts of the world they all deserve eternal damnation? Seems a little cruel.

And once again you take on the role of God and claim to know what is and what is not the position of God. Howcome your interpretation of faith is the right one? How do you know without doubt that this is the criteria for salvation? How do you know that those who believe what you do are the only ones "worthy" of salvation?