EU Referendum

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    How are you going to vote?

    [ 4 ]
    67% [67%] 
    [ 2 ]
    33% [33%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 

    Total Votes: 6
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:32 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:Seems to me that the overwhelming biggest thing people want to vote leave for is immigration. Obviously that isn't the case for everyone voting leave, Zlatan is testament to that. But whenever you seem to get the opinion of an average Joe wanting to leave their reasons always seem to be that immigrants are a burden on this country and that they are "changing" it.

    That changing it part is key because to me it sounds very much like they alluding to "Muslims" or to be more ethnically exact Arabs/Kurds/Asians/Africans etc... Because let be honest, if the UK kicked all the immigrants outs but kept just the ones of European descent (whether that be Polish, Slovakian or whatever) then I don't think immigration would be as big an issue.

    And with that being the case how would voting OUT stop people coming in from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan....? That's a genuine question I have.

    It's a huge problem for most people, for me too, it is arguably my biggest gripe but I know that being a member of the EU has a huge control over it through our lack of sovereignty, so it kind of just falls under the umbrella.

    I think you're right to an extent, I still think people would have an issue with EU migration too because it's still at such a high level, and with the collapsing Euro zone it's only going to get worse, obviously immigrants from European countries have more in common with British people so they're less likely to be as hostile towards it but it still rubs a lot of the working class the wrong way.

    It won't, but hopefully whoever the next PM is would be able to fulfil the Tory manifesto pledge to reduce immigration to "tens of thousands". There's absolutely no excuse (that I know of) to have not reduced those numbers greatly. I don't personally trust them on this issue, the only mainstream party that I think would actually stick to their word on lowering immigration is UKIP. In terms of the refugees, remaining in the EU leaves us open to them obtaining EU passports and then coming here as EU citizens in a few years.
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:30 pm

    FUCKING YAASSSS

    JELLY AND ICE CREAM WHEN THE EU DIES

    ALLAH ACKBAR
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:30 pm

    RR ON SUICIDE WATCH
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:31 pm

    GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:32 pm

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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:51 pm

    RIP David Cameron
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    Stranger
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Stranger on Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:01 pm

    We got our country back yippee yippee yippee
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:57 pm

    Our very own fourth of July. Happy Tears

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:34 pm

    Listening to people from the LEAVE camp talking about how it's going to negotiate with the EU it sounds like it's basically going to either be the same or they are being wildly optimistic (deluded?) about how much the EU will bend over for them.
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:02 pm

    It's in their interest to have amicable negotiations unless they want to say goodbye to one of their biggest customers. It's also outlined in their treaties.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:23 pm

    Most of the Leave people have only spoken briefly and it's still early doors but it sounds like they think they can get a deal which gives us all the benefits of the EU but without unskilled/scrounging immigrations and without following EU laws. Why would the EU agree to something like? It would lead to the total collapse of the EU. I'm sure they'd rather lose out on the UK then lose out of the current EU model.
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:40 pm

    The ultimate objective is to no longer be part of the single market and subsequently no longer bound by it by having to accept free movement of people and then being able to source our own trade agreements. There's approximately 50-60 countries that aren't members of the EU that have free trade agreements with it. UK businesses that sell into the EU (all 5% of them...) can continue to abide by EU regulations if they want to continue to sell to them, this alleviates the huge burdens imposed onto the other 95% of businesses. The collapse of the EU will come naturally now anyway, more countries will have referendums and probably follow in our footsteps.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 am

    Isn't a bigger benefit, actually the biggest benefit, of the single market the services? So so these 50-60 countries that have free trade agreements do they also have "freedom to establish themselves in other EU countries and the freedom to provide services in countries other than the one in which they are established"?
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    Theo Filippo
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Theo Filippo on Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:48 am

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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:09 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:Isn't a bigger benefit, actually the biggest benefit, of the single market the services? So so these 50-60 countries that have free trade agreements do they also have "freedom to establish themselves in other EU countries and the freedom to provide services in countries other than the one in which they are established"?

    Yeah we have a £21b surplus on financial services, there's a lot of EU businesses in the City that prosper from this, they won't disrupt that. We have some of the best services on the planet, coming out of the single market opens us up to the world even more where we can make trade deals and reduce costs, subsequently selling more.

    Theo Filippo wrote:
    Did you vote for freedom too? I want to know who the other patriot is that voted in the poll.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:30 am

    The Zlatan wrote:Yeah we have a £21b surplus on financial services, there's a lot of EU businesses in the City that prosper from this, they won't disrupt that. We have some of the best services on the planet, coming out of the single market opens us up to the world even more where we can make trade deals and reduce costs, subsequently selling more.

    But those services rely on the free movement of people which is why I said either nothing/very little is going to change in terms of immigration or they are living in dreamland if they think they can take the good but keep out the bad.

    So you think we will strike trade deals that will involve making it easier for people to immigrate to and from the UK with these other world nations? Wouldn't that just mean we'd get more immigrants from non-EU countries.

    I honestly can't see a scenario were we reduce immigration to the level all of these LEAVE voters want yet still get as good or even better deals.[/quote]
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    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:38 am

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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:41 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:Yeah we have a £21b surplus on financial services, there's a lot of EU businesses in the City that prosper from this, they won't disrupt that. We have some of the best services on the planet, coming out of the single market opens us up to the world even more where we can make trade deals and reduce costs, subsequently selling more.

    But those services rely on the free movement of people which is why I said either nothing/very little is going to change in terms of immigration or they are living in dreamland if they think they can take the good but keep out the bad.

    So you think we will strike trade deals that will involve making it easier for people to immigrate to and from the UK with these other world nations? Wouldn't that just mean we'd get more immigrants from non-EU countries.

    I honestly can't see a scenario were we reduce immigration to the level all of these LEAVE voters want yet still get as good or even better deals.

    Why does exporting services rely on free movement of people?
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    Theo Filippo
     
     

    Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Theo Filippo on Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:57 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    Theo Filippo wrote:
    Did you vote for freedom too? I want to know who the other patriot is that voted in the poll.
    I also voted for freedom.
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:12 am

    Good lad.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:44 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    Keyser Söze wrote:

    But those services rely on the free movement of people which is why I said either nothing/very little is going to change in terms of immigration or they are living in dreamland if they think they can take the good but keep out the bad.

    So you think we will strike trade deals that will involve making it easier for people to immigrate to and from the UK with these other world nations? Wouldn't that just mean we'd get more immigrants from non-EU countries.

    I honestly can't see a scenario were we reduce immigration to the level all of these LEAVE voters want yet still get as good or even better deals.

    Why does exporting services rely on free movement of people?

    Because as far as I'm aware work based visas cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to process. I'm not saying it relies on them, but the reason the EU was such a successful commerce bloc was primarily down to that factor.
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:25 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    Why does exporting services rely on free movement of people?

    Because as far as I'm aware work based visas cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to process. I'm not saying it relies on them, but the reason the EU was such a successful commerce bloc was primarily down to that factor.  

    I assume that's what the points based system would cover. It's protectionist and over regulated, I wouldn't really call it successful personally.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:20 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    Keyser Söze wrote:

    Because as far as I'm aware work based visas cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to process. I'm not saying it relies on them, but the reason the EU was such a successful commerce bloc was primarily down to that factor.  

    I assume that's what the points based system would cover. It's protectionist and over regulated, I wouldn't really call it successful personally.

    But that'll still require some type of visa so it'll mean paperwork, waiting times and money. Obviously I have no idea how much in each case, could be insignificant or could be sizeable.

    Also I'd assume it'll mean a complete reshaping of our current immigration proceeder for non-EU applicants. I'd say that's a fairly OK system already so if we're going to change it to make it easier for EU citizens then it'll lead to more successful non-EU immigrants.

    The fact we are even speculating is a problem in my opinion. I'd have liked LEAVE to have presented some type of alternative system during their campaigning, I don't think they were even questioned on it. Only UKIP have talked about a points system and they currently have nothing to do with governmental decisions. You also have senior LEAVE campaigners for Labour coming out today and saying LEAVE never promised to bring down immigration. Simply saying they promised to put in place their "own" controls and whether that brings down or increases immigration is another thing.
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    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:22 pm

    Keyser Söze wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    I assume that's what the points based system would cover. It's protectionist and over regulated, I wouldn't really call it successful personally.

    But that'll still require some type of visa so it'll mean paperwork, waiting times and money. Obviously I have no idea how much in each case, could be insignificant or could be sizeable.

    Also I'd assume it'll mean a complete reshaping of our current immigration proceeder for non-EU applicants. I'd say that's a fairly OK system already so if we're going to change it to make it easier for EU citizens then it'll lead to more successful non-EU immigrants.  

    The fact we are even speculating is a problem in my opinion. I'd have liked LEAVE to have presented some type of alternative system during their campaigning, I don't think they were even questioned on it. Only UKIP have talked about a points system and they currently have nothing to do with governmental decisions. You also have senior LEAVE campaigners for Labour coming out today and saying LEAVE never promised to bring down immigration. Simply saying they promised to put in place their "own" controls and whether that brings down or increases immigration is another thing.    

    Farage has come out today and said that the £350m the official Leave campaign very publicly suggested to spend on the NHS was a mistake and they shouldn't have put it because they can't.  Dan Hannan has said people who voted Leave to reduce immigration are going to be disappointed.  The clueless, the uneducated and the out of touch have colluded to fuck this country over.

    The stupidity of voters in this country is really astonishing.  Leave have managed to convince several areas which benefit most from EU money to vote to leave the EU.  Despite voting against it areas like Cornwall are the first to hold their grubby hands out and insist that the UK government matches the EU money they've received in the past.  I'm looking forward to when reality sets in for places like Wales and the North East and the higher interest rates take their homes away from them.

    Cameron has earned a special place in history as one of the worst Prime Ministers who has ever lived.

    Boris Johnson's ideal as of about a year ago was always to vote for leave, renegotiate a new deal then have another vote so we can choose between two real options.  The Leave campaign's advantage in this referendum was that their plans couldn't be criticised because there was no plan, they could just tell people to have faith in Britain and for a lot of morons that worked.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:20 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    Keyser Söze wrote:

    But that'll still require some type of visa so it'll mean paperwork, waiting times and money. Obviously I have no idea how much in each case, could be insignificant or could be sizeable.

    Also I'd assume it'll mean a complete reshaping of our current immigration proceeder for non-EU applicants. I'd say that's a fairly OK system already so if we're going to change it to make it easier for EU citizens then it'll lead to more successful non-EU immigrants.  

    The fact we are even speculating is a problem in my opinion. I'd have liked LEAVE to have presented some type of alternative system during their campaigning, I don't think they were even questioned on it. Only UKIP have talked about a points system and they currently have nothing to do with governmental decisions. You also have senior LEAVE campaigners for Labour coming out today and saying LEAVE never promised to bring down immigration. Simply saying they promised to put in place their "own" controls and whether that brings down or increases immigration is another thing.    

    Farage has come out today and said that the £350m the official Leave campaign very publicly suggested to spend on the NHS was a mistake and they shouldn't have put it because they can't.  Dan Hannan has said people who voted Leave to reduce immigration are going to be disappointed.  The clueless, the uneducated and the out of touch have colluded to fuck this country over.

    The stupidity of voters in this country is really astonishing.  Leave have managed to convince several areas which benefit most from EU money to vote to leave the EU.  Despite voting against it areas like Cornwall are the first to hold their grubby hands out and insist that the UK government matches the EU money they've received in the past.  I'm looking forward to when reality sets in for places like Wales and the North East and the higher interest rates take their homes away from them.

    Cameron has earned a special place in history as one of the worst Prime Ministers who has ever lived.

    Boris Johnson's ideal as of about a year ago was always to vote for leave, renegotiate a new deal then have another vote so we can choose between two real options.  The Leave campaign's advantage in this referendum was that their plans couldn't be criticised because there was no plan, they could just tell people to have faith in Britain and for a lot of morons that worked.

    Yep saw both those interviews. Also a quick Google search for Hannan shows he's so Eurosceptic he's been branded xenophobic multiple times. If someone like that is now floating the idea of a EFTA type deal with "free movement labour" it shows that LEAVE were always acutely aware that the UK couldn't/can function without the single market. I don't think for a second they thought they could access the single market without free movement of people and without paying in, which were two things they heavily campaigned against.

    What do you mean choose between two real options? Do you think a 2nd vote would be between staying in the EU Vs becoming apart of a EFTA type deal, or do you think it'd be a vote between being totally out of anything EU related Vs being apart of a EFTA type deal?

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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:37 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    I assume that's what the points based system would cover. It's protectionist and over regulated, I wouldn't really call it successful personally.

    But that'll still require some type of visa so it'll mean paperwork, waiting times and money. Obviously I have no idea how much in each case, could be insignificant or could be sizeable.

    Also I'd assume it'll mean a complete reshaping of our current immigration proceeder for non-EU applicants. I'd say that's a fairly OK system already so if we're going to change it to make it easier for EU citizens then it'll lead to more successful non-EU immigrants.  

    The fact we are even speculating is a problem in my opinion. I'd have liked LEAVE to have presented some type of alternative system during their campaigning, I don't think they were even questioned on it. Only UKIP have talked about a points system and they currently have nothing to do with governmental decisions. You also have senior LEAVE campaigners for Labour coming out today and saying LEAVE never promised to bring down immigration. Simply saying they promised to put in place their "own" controls and whether that brings down or increases immigration is another thing.    

    So what? Every country outside of the EU manages. We will too.

    Whatever happens in that regard would be down to the government of the day, the point is that there was no control of EU migration. Leaving the EU means we can now control that, whether the government chooses to increase that number or decrease that number will be down to them, if the electorate wants that changed, they'll have an opportunity to change it.

    Boris Johnson has endorsed the points based system, and people are right to say that Vote Leave haven't said they'd reduce migration, because they haven't. Their arguing point was the very tedious "vote leave, take back control", but the key point was 'control'. This is why I think UKIP will still be relevant come 2020, they actually want immigration reduced and are willing to use that as a flag bearer in any campaign, the Tories don't seem to want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:46 am

    I'll just say as well, Vote Leave can't be trusted. It's why a separate campaign was ran by Arron Banks and Richard Tice.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:28 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    Keyser Söze wrote:

    But that'll still require some type of visa so it'll mean paperwork, waiting times and money. Obviously I have no idea how much in each case, could be insignificant or could be sizeable.

    Also I'd assume it'll mean a complete reshaping of our current immigration proceeder for non-EU applicants. I'd say that's a fairly OK system already so if we're going to change it to make it easier for EU citizens then it'll lead to more successful non-EU immigrants.  

    The fact we are even speculating is a problem in my opinion. I'd have liked LEAVE to have presented some type of alternative system during their campaigning, I don't think they were even questioned on it. Only UKIP have talked about a points system and they currently have nothing to do with governmental decisions. You also have senior LEAVE campaigners for Labour coming out today and saying LEAVE never promised to bring down immigration. Simply saying they promised to put in place their "own" controls and whether that brings down or increases immigration is another thing.    

    So what? Every country outside of the EU manages. We will too.

    Whatever happens in that regard would be down to the government of the day, the point is that there was no control of EU migration. Leaving the EU means we can now control that, whether the government chooses to increase that number or decrease that number will be down to them, if the electorate wants that changed, they'll have an opportunity to change it.

    Boris Johnson has endorsed the points based system, and people are right to say that Vote Leave haven't said they'd reduce migration, because they haven't. Their arguing point was the very tedious "vote leave, take back control", but the key point was 'control'. This is why I think UKIP will still be relevant come 2020, they actually want immigration reduced and are willing to use that as a flag bearer in any campaign, the Tories don't seem to want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

    So if the government decides it wants to keep the EU immigration system we currently have in place you're OK with that? Isn't that exactly what they were doing by deciding to be apart of the EU?  

    Pretty sure Boris Johnson has never endorsed a points based system. Only thing I've found is him saying that that would be one option the UK would have when it takes back control, but when pressed on it he refused to promise/endorse it. As for "taking back control", Vote Leave made a very clear point that this Tory government promised to reduce immigration to "ten of thousands" and failed, they said that could only be achieved by leaving the EU. If they are now saying that immigration will not be reduced to that figure then it's a lie.

    I see your point about UKIP. I initially thought Farage would favour marginally losing this vote since winning it would render him and his party close to insignificant. But leave actually winning and then Vote Leave failing to fully deliver something that UKIP/hardline Brexit voters wanted would keep then relevant like you said.

    The Zlatan wrote:I'll just say as well, Vote Leave can't be trusted. It's why a separate campaign was ran by Arron Banks and Richard Tice.

    If that is the case then this a pretty fictitious result. I think Vote Leave resonated with a lot more Leave voters than Leave.EU did. But even if you disagree with that it's indisputable that it was Vote Leave that swung the vote in favour of leave.
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    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:58 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:

    Farage has come out today and said that the £350m the official Leave campaign very publicly suggested to spend on the NHS was a mistake and they shouldn't have put it because they can't.  Dan Hannan has said people who voted Leave to reduce immigration are going to be disappointed.  The clueless, the uneducated and the out of touch have colluded to fuck this country over.

    The stupidity of voters in this country is really astonishing.  Leave have managed to convince several areas which benefit most from EU money to vote to leave the EU.  Despite voting against it areas like Cornwall are the first to hold their grubby hands out and insist that the UK government matches the EU money they've received in the past.  I'm looking forward to when reality sets in for places like Wales and the North East and the higher interest rates take their homes away from them.

    Cameron has earned a special place in history as one of the worst Prime Ministers who has ever lived.

    Boris Johnson's ideal as of about a year ago was always to vote for leave, renegotiate a new deal then have another vote so we can choose between two real options.  The Leave campaign's advantage in this referendum was that their plans couldn't be criticised because there was no plan, they could just tell people to have faith in Britain and for a lot of morons that worked.

    Yep saw both those interviews. Also a quick Google search for Hannan shows he's so Eurosceptic he's been branded xenophobic multiple times. If someone like that is now floating the idea of a EFTA type deal with "free movement labour" it shows that LEAVE were always acutely aware that the UK couldn't/can function without the single market. I don't think for a second they thought they could access the single market without free movement of people and without paying in, which were two things they heavily campaigned against.

    What do you mean choose between two real options? Do you think a 2nd vote would be between staying in the EU Vs becoming apart of a EFTA type deal, or do you think it'd be a vote between being totally out of anything EU related Vs being apart of a EFTA type deal?  

    The latter, a total out would be totally catastrophic for this country, Johnson isn't going down as the guy who brought that on us.
    The Zlatan wrote:
    Keyser Söze wrote:

    But that'll still require some type of visa so it'll mean paperwork, waiting times and money. Obviously I have no idea how much in each case, could be insignificant or could be sizeable.

    Also I'd assume it'll mean a complete reshaping of our current immigration proceeder for non-EU applicants. I'd say that's a fairly OK system already so if we're going to change it to make it easier for EU citizens then it'll lead to more successful non-EU immigrants.  

    The fact we are even speculating is a problem in my opinion. I'd have liked LEAVE to have presented some type of alternative system during their campaigning, I don't think they were even questioned on it. Only UKIP have talked about a points system and they currently have nothing to do with governmental decisions. You also have senior LEAVE campaigners for Labour coming out today and saying LEAVE never promised to bring down immigration. Simply saying they promised to put in place their "own" controls and whether that brings down or increases immigration is another thing.    

    So what? Every country outside of the EU manages. We will too.

    Whatever happens in that regard would be down to the government of the day, the point is that there was no control of EU migration. Leaving the EU means we can now control that, whether the government chooses to increase that number or decrease that number will be down to them, if the electorate wants that changed, they'll have an opportunity to change it.

    Boris Johnson has endorsed the points based system, and people are right to say that Vote Leave haven't said they'd reduce migration, because they haven't. Their arguing point was the very tedious "vote leave, take back control", but the key point was 'control'. This is why I think UKIP will still be relevant come 2020, they actually want immigration reduced and are willing to use that as a flag bearer in any campaign, the Tories don't seem to want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.
    What if the government of the day decides they want to stay in the EU?
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    The Zlatan
     
     

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    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:17 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    So what? Every country outside of the EU manages. We will too.

    Whatever happens in that regard would be down to the government of the day, the point is that there was no control of EU migration. Leaving the EU means we can now control that, whether the government chooses to increase that number or decrease that number will be down to them, if the electorate wants that changed, they'll have an opportunity to change it.

    Boris Johnson has endorsed the points based system, and people are right to say that Vote Leave haven't said they'd reduce migration, because they haven't. Their arguing point was the very tedious "vote leave, take back control", but the key point was 'control'. This is why I think UKIP will still be relevant come 2020, they actually want immigration reduced and are willing to use that as a flag bearer in any campaign, the Tories don't seem to want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

    So if the government decides it wants to keep the EU immigration system we currently have in place you're OK with that? Isn't that exactly what they were doing by deciding to be apart of the EU?  

    Pretty sure Boris Johnson has never endorsed a points based system. Only thing I've found is him saying that that would be one option the UK would have when it takes back control, but when pressed on it he refused to promise/endorse it. As for "taking back control", Vote Leave made a very clear point that this Tory government promised to reduce immigration to "ten of thousands" and failed, they said that could only be achieved by leaving the EU. If they are now saying that immigration will not be reduced to that figure then it's a lie.

    I see your point about UKIP. I initially thought Farage would favour marginally losing this vote since winning it would render him and his party close to insignificant. But leave actually winning and then Vote Leave failing to fully deliver something that UKIP/hardline Brexit voters wanted would keep then relevant like you said.

    The Zlatan wrote:I'll just say as well, Vote Leave can't be trusted. It's why a separate campaign was ran by Arron Banks and Richard Tice.



    I wouldn't personally be okay with it, no. I want immigration reduced drastically from both EU and non EU countries. I don't know what they're going to do with those numbers, I think it would be a huge mistake for them to make if they don't reduce them if they want to stay in power.

    He has done a couple of times, my most recent memory of it was in the main BBC debate on Wednesday. Gisela Stuart did too, I can't remeber if Andrea Leadsom said anything about it. I agree, and that's why I've never trusted them. The next few years are going to be really interesting, watching the coverage through the night as the votes were coming in and seeing every Labour MP and the likes of Alastair Campbell attempting to move the issues away from immigration just went to show how out of touch these people are, trying to say things like 'Oh, people think they don't like immigration, but really it's the Tories etc. etc.', it just keeps reaffirming my belief that UKIP will just continue to rise in the polls.

    Leave would never have won if it wasn't for Farage, he had the support of the Labour heartlands and regardless of what happens to the Labour leadership now, those same voters could very well shift to UKIP. Leave.EU's internal polling over the last week had them calling the final result spot on, and with that they had 4m of those Labour votes.

    Keyser Söze wrote:If that is the case then this a pretty fictitious result. I think Vote Leave resonated with a lot more Leave voters than Leave.EU did. But even if you disagree with that it's indisputable that it was Vote Leave that swung the vote in favour of leave.

    That ties in with what I said above, there's no doubt that Vote Leave had the biggest outreach, especially to a more apathetic voter base who all see Farage as 'racist, bigot, divisive blah blah blah' but it's absolutely true that they never would have won were it not for Farage.

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:What if the government of the day decides they want to stay in the EU?

    Then they alienate and anger half of the country and risk a UKIP surge.

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      Current date/time is Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:02 pm