EU Referendum

    Share

    Poll

    How are you going to vote?

    [ 4 ]
    67% [67%] 
    [ 2 ]
    33% [33%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 

    Total Votes: 6
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:45 pm

    I'm sure some of you cunts might be interested in this, if not I'll just talk to myself for the next 10 weeks.

    Vote Remain if you're a faggot.
    Vote Leave if you're not.

    The rest doesn't matter.

    Obviously I think we should vote to leave, reclaim our sovereignty and use the money for things far more useful.
    avatar
    Theo Filippo
     
     

    Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
    Posts : 21636
    Age : 23

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Theo Filippo on Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:46 am

    Not sure because every time I read an argument in favor of staying/leaving it's littered with false information or exaggerated repercussions.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:10 am

    Theo Filippo wrote:Not sure because every time I read an argument in favor of staying/leaving it's littered with false information or exaggerated repercussions.

    Yeah there's a lot of misinformation going around, I suppose you just have to look at the source and try and determine the vested interest.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:33 am

    You don't need to listen to any terrible spun facts, you don't need to listen to the average man on the street or people on internet forums, all you have to do is look at who is on Project Fear and who is on Project Fantasy

    Project Fear

    Head of the Bank of England, Mark Carney
    Current Prime Minister, David Cameron
    Current Chancellor, Gideon Osbourne
    Former Prime Minister and Chancellor, Gordon Brown
    Former Prime Minister, Tony Blair
    Former Prime Minister, Sir John Major
    Current President of the United States, Barack Obama
    The banks
    Current Labour leader and Privy Council member, Jeremy Corbyn

    Project Fantasy

    Head of UKIP, Nigel Farage (never held elected office in the UK, never held a degree)
    London Mayor, Alexander Johnson (he calls himself Boris because it's wacky)
    Iain Duncan Smith
    Michael Gove
    George Galloway

    I know who I'd rather trust in deciding the future of the country.  Literally everyone living who has run the country from both sides of the political spectrum and everyone with access to the best information on public finances, thinks that leaving would be bad for this country's economy.  It would be a total disaster, we shouldn't even be having a referendum on it.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:02 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:You don't need to listen to any terrible spun facts, you don't need to listen to the average man on the street or people on internet forums, all you have to do is look at who is on Project Fear and who is on Project Fantasy

    Project Fear

    Head of the Bank of England, Mark Carney
    Current Prime Minister, David Cameron
    Current Chancellor, Gideon Osbourne
    Former Prime Minister and Chancellor, Gordon Brown
    Former Prime Minister, Tony Blair
    Former Prime Minister, Sir John Major
    Current President of the United States, Barack Obama
    The banks
    Current Labour leader and Privy Council member, Jeremy Corbyn

    Project Fantasy

    Head of UKIP, Nigel Farage (never held elected office in the UK, never held a degree)
    London Mayor, Alexander Johnson (he calls himself Boris because it's wacky)
    Iain Duncan Smith
    Michael Gove
    George Galloway

    I know who I'd rather trust in deciding the future of the country.  Literally everyone living who has run the country from both sides of the political spectrum and everyone with access to the best information on public finances, thinks that leaving would be bad for this country's economy.  It would be a total disaster, we shouldn't even be having a referendum on it.

    An appeal to authority if ever there was one. Don't judge for yourself guys.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:12 am

    Appeal to authority is a perfectly valid form of argument.  

    Suppose I am arguing with somebody about black holes.  

    I say they have a strong gravitational pull and cite Stephen Hawking as agreeing with me, while the other person says "Nah, I don't reckon they have any gravity at all, they're just holes".

    Do I need to post a scientific proof that both my opponent and I can understand to win the argument, or is it enough that I'm siding with Stephen Hawking and the rest of the scientific community and he's siding with only clueless bell ends?

    I'm on the side of the experts here, you're on the side of the bell ends.  Join us.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:05 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:Appeal to authority is a perfectly valid form of argument.  

    Suppose I am arguing with somebody about black holes.  

    I say they have a strong gravitational pull and cite Stephen Hawking as agreeing with me, while the other person says "Nah, I don't reckon they have any gravity at all, they're just holes".

    Do I need to post a scientific proof that both my opponent and I can understand to win the argument, or is it enough that I'm siding with Stephen Hawking and the rest of the scientific community and he's siding with only clueless bell ends?

    I'm on the side of the experts here, you're on the side of the bell ends.  Join us.

    Except this is about ideology, and ideology is always open to be challenged, that way we can determine which we think is best and support it.

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:32 am

    What's encouraged you to vote leave, Zlatan?
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:39 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:Appeal to authority is a perfectly valid form of argument.  

    Suppose I am arguing with somebody about black holes.  

    I say they have a strong gravitational pull and cite Stephen Hawking as agreeing with me, while the other person says "Nah, I don't reckon they have any gravity at all, they're just holes".

    Do I need to post a scientific proof that both my opponent and I can understand to win the argument, or is it enough that I'm siding with Stephen Hawking and the rest of the scientific community and he's siding with only clueless bell ends?

    I'm on the side of the experts here, you're on the side of the bell ends.  Join us.

    Except this is about ideology, and ideology is always open to be challenged, that way we can determine which we think is best and support it.
    Is it?  What ideologies are clashing here?
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:40 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:What's encouraged you to vote leave, Zlatan?

    My main gripe is that we have given up our sovereignty, the people in this country should be able to pick and chose who and what they vote for, our laws shouldn't be decided by a faceless, unelected commission. Economically we are shooting ourselves in the foot by remaining within a protectionist trade bloc and pissing away a quarter of a billion each week to then run a massive trade deficit. We can't control our borders properly. We're going to be sucked in to 'an ever closer union' because David Cameron's 'renegotiation' isn't even legally binding, consisting of even more poor countries than there are now. The stupid environmental policies which have contributed to the collapse of much of our heavy industry destroying jobs. The common agricultural policy which means we subsidise continental farms to compete with our own. The over regulation of the finance industry. It's a long list.

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    Except this is about ideology, and ideology is always open to be challenged, that way we can determine which we think is best and support it.
    Is it?  What ideologies are clashing here?
    It's the belief in democracy vs whatever the fuck the EU is trying to be.
    avatar
    Glen Miller
     
     

    Formerly known as : Glen Damon
    Posts : 7022
    Age : 21
    Location : PLAYMAKER
    Supports : PLAYMAKER

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Glen Miller on Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:16 am

    I think I have a vote in this because I left the UK just under 15 years ago.  think
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:37 am

    The sovereignty argument is total bullshit. We still have sovereignty because our government or parliament can take the country at any time if it wishes to.  

    The only people trying to take away the government's right to act in the way it wishes are the people voting out.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:28 am

    Glen Miller wrote:I think I have a vote in this because I left the UK just under 15 years ago.  think

    I think you need to have been on the electoral register.

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:The sovereignty argument is total bullshit. We still have sovereignty because our government or parliament can take the country at any time if it wishes to.  

    The only people trying to take away the government's right to act in the way it wishes are the people voting out.

    Our parliament isn't supreme, EU laws and regulations are. Secretary of State for Defence, Michael Fallon (has a degree) has admitted this.

    You sound like a dictator.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:25 pm

    The Zlatan wrote:
    Glen Miller wrote:I think I have a vote in this because I left the UK just under 15 years ago.  think

    I think you need to have been on the electoral register.

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:The sovereignty argument is total bullshit. We still have sovereignty because our government or parliament can take the country at any time if it wishes to.  

    The only people trying to take away the government's right to act in the way it wishes are the people voting out.

    Our parliament isn't supreme, EU laws and regulations are. Secretary of State for Defence, Michael Fallon (has a degree) has admitted this.

    You sound like a dictator.

    You don't understand what I'm saying. Ultimately Parliament has sovereignty because our acquiescence to EU law is at the discretion of Parliament. They could pass a law tomorrow saying that EU law no longer applies and that would be completely valid. They choose not to because they think it's in our best interests. That's what sovereignty is, a country's freedom to act in its best interests.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:07 pm

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    I think you need to have been on the electoral register.



    Our parliament isn't supreme, EU laws and regulations are. Secretary of State for Defence, Michael Fallon (has a degree) has admitted this.

    You sound like a dictator.

    You don't understand what I'm saying.  Ultimately Parliament has sovereignty because our acquiescence to EU law is at the discretion of Parliament.  They could pass a law tomorrow saying that EU law no longer applies and that would be completely valid.  They choose not to because they think it's in our best interests.  That's what sovereignty is, a country's freedom to act in its best interests.

    They choose not to because we're bound by various treaties and to repudiate them would be in breach of EU law. That opens us up to being taken to court and facing a fine, just like they fined us £300 million for not meeting air pollution targets, and over £600 million for not managing CAP payments properly. We could only guess how big a fine would be if we were to start disregarding entire treaties.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:03 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:

    You don't understand what I'm saying.  Ultimately Parliament has sovereignty because our acquiescence to EU law is at the discretion of Parliament.  They could pass a law tomorrow saying that EU law no longer applies and that would be completely valid.  They choose not to because they think it's in our best interests.  That's what sovereignty is, a country's freedom to act in its best interests.

    They choose not to because we're bound by various treaties and to repudiate them would be in breach of EU law. That opens us up to being taken to court and facing a fine, just like they fined us £300 million for not meeting air pollution targets, and over £600 million for not managing CAP payments properly. We could only guess how big a fine would be if we were to start disregarding entire treaties.
    We are having a referendum to leave, to break every treaty we have entered into with regard to the European Union, we haven't needed to get permission from the EU to do this.  Our membership is voluntary, EU laws only apply as long as we say they apply.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:00 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    They choose not to because we're bound by various treaties and to repudiate them would be in breach of EU law. That opens us up to being taken to court and facing a fine, just like they fined us £300 million for not meeting air pollution targets, and over £600 million for not managing CAP payments properly. We could only guess how big a fine would be if we were to start disregarding entire treaties.
    We are having a referendum to leave, to break every treaty we have entered into with regard to the European Union, we haven't needed to get permission from the EU to do this.  Our membership is voluntary, EU laws only apply as long as we say they apply.

    I know, we don't need permission because it's part of the Lisbon Treaty that any member state can begin negotiations to leave the union. If we say the laws don't apply, we get punished.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:03 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    We are having a referendum to leave, to break every treaty we have entered into with regard to the European Union, we haven't needed to get permission from the EU to do this.  Our membership is voluntary, EU laws only apply as long as we say they apply.

    I know, we don't need permission because it's part of the Lisbon Treaty that any member state can begin negotiations to leave the union. If we say the laws don't apply, we get punished.
    The Lisbon treaty just provides a mechanism for it, in reality we could say from tomorrow "EU Laws no longer apply", ignore all of the punishments and go our own way.  We obviously won't, but we retain sovereignty because it's in our power to do so.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:58 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    I know, we don't need permission because it's part of the Lisbon Treaty that any member state can begin negotiations to leave the union. If we say the laws don't apply, we get punished.
    The Lisbon treaty just provides a mechanism for it, in reality we could say from tomorrow "EU Laws no longer apply", ignore all of the punishments and go our own way.  We obviously won't, but we retain sovereignty because it's in our power to do so.

    In 1972 the public was told that sovereignty would not be given away, in 1975 the referendum took place with this claim still at the forefront of the vote. The people were told that sovereignty would be preserved for them, clearly they were lied to and were conned into giving it up.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:17 pm

    The Zlatan wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Lisbon treaty just provides a mechanism for it, in reality we could say from tomorrow "EU Laws no longer apply", ignore all of the punishments and go our own way.  We obviously won't, but we retain sovereignty because it's in our power to do so.

    In 1972 the public was told that sovereignty would not be given away, in 1975 the referendum took place with this claim still at the forefront of the vote. The people were told that sovereignty would be preserved for them, clearly they were lied to and were conned into giving it up.
    It wasn't, if you can stop obeying at any time and do you own thing you have sovereignty.  The fact that you decide not to because it's not in your interest doesn't mean you don't have sovereignty.

    Here is one of the famous RR analogies, I hope this helps.

    I love playing golf, so I join a golf club.  That golf club says that in order for me to remain a member I have to pay an annual membership fee of £1000, conduct myself in a way that will not bring the golf club into disrepute and, due to a long standing rule nobody's sure who made not football matches.  As part of my sign up I agreed that if I do any of these things my membership with the golf club will be terminated.

    If I want to breach one of the rules of the golf club I still have the option to do so.  The golf club can not prevent me from doing so, it has not infringed upon my personal sovereignty at all.  There may, however, be consequences to my breaking of a rule in that the voluntary association between myself and the golf club will be terminated.

    This is the situation between the UK and the EU.  A voluntary association between two parties that confers obligations on each when the association is in effect.

    The only scenario in which sovereignty could genuinely be said to have been given up to the EU was if the EU had soldiers or a police force on the streets of this country to enforce EU laws and this country could not leave without the permission of the EU.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:44 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    In 1972 the public was told that sovereignty would not be given away, in 1975 the referendum took place with this claim still at the forefront of the vote. The people were told that sovereignty would be preserved for them, clearly they were lied to and were conned into giving it up.
    It wasn't, if you can stop obeying at any time and do you own thing you have sovereignty.  The fact that you decide not to because it's not in your interest doesn't mean you don't have sovereignty.

    Here is one of the famous RR analogies, I hope this helps.

    I love playing golf, so I join a golf club.  That golf club says that in order for me to remain a member I have to pay an annual membership fee of £1000, conduct myself in a way that will not bring the golf club into disrepute and, due to a long standing rule nobody's sure who made not football matches.  As part of my sign up I agreed that if I do any of these things my membership with the golf club will be terminated.

    If I want to breach one of the rules of the golf club I still have the option to do so.  The golf club can not prevent me from doing so, it has not infringed upon my personal sovereignty at all.  There may, however, be consequences to my breaking of a rule in that the voluntary association between myself and the golf club will be terminated.

    This is the situation between the UK and the EU.  A voluntary association between two parties that confers obligations on each when the association is in effect.

    The only scenario in which sovereignty could genuinely be said to have been given up to the EU was if the EU had soldiers or a police force on the streets of this country to enforce EU laws and this country could not leave without the permission of the EU.

    That's actually a pretty good analogy, but I'll just change it up a bit.

    "Hey son, do you want to go and play golf at the local club? Just say yes and we'll go and have a game, no strings attached."

    "Are you sure, dad? Just a game of golf, nothing else?"

    "Yes, son. Just a game of golf, would I ever lie to you?"

    "Okay then, dad. Yes, let's play some golf!"

    "Okay, son, here we are, let's play... Oh btw lol I signed you up 4life, theoretically you can leave any time you like but I'm your dad and I won't let you lol. btfo."

    Fin
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:10 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    It wasn't, if you can stop obeying at any time and do you own thing you have sovereignty.  The fact that you decide not to because it's not in your interest doesn't mean you don't have sovereignty.

    Here is one of the famous RR analogies, I hope this helps.

    I love playing golf, so I join a golf club.  That golf club says that in order for me to remain a member I have to pay an annual membership fee of £1000, conduct myself in a way that will not bring the golf club into disrepute and, due to a long standing rule nobody's sure who made not football matches.  As part of my sign up I agreed that if I do any of these things my membership with the golf club will be terminated.

    If I want to breach one of the rules of the golf club I still have the option to do so.  The golf club can not prevent me from doing so, it has not infringed upon my personal sovereignty at all.  There may, however, be consequences to my breaking of a rule in that the voluntary association between myself and the golf club will be terminated.

    This is the situation between the UK and the EU.  A voluntary association between two parties that confers obligations on each when the association is in effect.

    The only scenario in which sovereignty could genuinely be said to have been given up to the EU was if the EU had soldiers or a police force on the streets of this country to enforce EU laws and this country could not leave without the permission of the EU.

    That's actually a pretty good analogy, but I'll just change it up a bit.

    "Hey son, do you want to go and play golf at the local club? Just say yes and we'll go and have a game, no strings attached."

    "Are you sure, dad? Just a game of golf, nothing else?"

    "Yes, son. Just a game of golf, would I ever lie to you?"

    "Okay then, dad. Yes, let's play some golf!"

    "Okay, son, here we are, let's play... Oh btw lol I signed you up 4life, theoretically you can leave any time you like but I'm your dad and I won't let you lol. btfo."

    Fin

    What do you mean, theoretically?  We are having a fucking referendum on this issue in two months, what do you think happens if we vote to leave?  Do you think we'll actually have to stay?
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:40 am

    Few more to add to the list
    Project Fear

    Head of the Bank of England, Mark Carney
    Current Prime Minister, David Cameron
    Current Chancellor, Gideon Osborne
    Former Prime Minister and Chancellor, Gordon Brown
    Former Prime Minister, Tony Blair
    Former Prime Minister, Sir John Major
    Current President of the United States, Barack Obama
    The banks
    Current Labour leader and Privy Council member, Jeremy Corbyn
    George Shultz, who served in the Nixon administration
    Michael Blumenthal, who served under President Carter
    Robert Rubin, Bill Clinton's former Treasury Secretary
    Lawrence Summers, who also served in the Clinton administration
    Paul O'Neill, who served in the first administration of George W. Bush
    John Snow, also formerly of the Bush administration
    Henry Paulson, Jr. of George W. Bush's administration
    Timothy Geithner, Treasury Secretary under President Obama

    Project Fantasy

    Head of UKIP, Nigel Farage (never held elected office in the UK, never held a degree)
    London Mayor, Alexander Johnson (he calls himself Boris because it's wacky)
    Iain Duncan Smith
    Michael Gove
    George Galloway
    Tim Martin, owner of Wetherspoons


    Last edited by ResurrectionRooney on Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Glen Miller
     
     

    Formerly known as : Glen Damon
    Posts : 7022
    Age : 21
    Location : PLAYMAKER
    Supports : PLAYMAKER

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Glen Miller on Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:54 pm

    You included Obama twice and did not use Anthony Blair's proper name.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:11 pm

    Glen Miller wrote:You included Obama twice and did not use Anthony Blair's proper name.
    Good spot on Obama.  I realised the other day I've been spelling Gideon Osborne's name wrong for about 6 years, adding a U where there should be no u.  I'm sure you can imagine how mortified I was.

    On Blair, I sometimes use nicknames for people I respect.


    Last edited by ResurrectionRooney on Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Glen Miller
     
     

    Formerly known as : Glen Damon
    Posts : 7022
    Age : 21
    Location : PLAYMAKER
    Supports : PLAYMAKER

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Glen Miller on Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:07 pm

    The funniest thing about Osborne is that, when tasked with changing his first name to something less posh and pretentious, the best he could come up with was "George."
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:19 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    That's actually a pretty good analogy, but I'll just change it up a bit.

    "Hey son, do you want to go and play golf at the local club? Just say yes and we'll go and have a game, no strings attached."

    "Are you sure, dad? Just a game of golf, nothing else?"

    "Yes, son. Just a game of golf, would I ever lie to you?"

    "Okay then, dad. Yes, let's play some golf!"

    "Okay, son, here we are, let's play... Oh btw lol I signed you up 4life, theoretically you can leave any time you like but I'm your dad and I won't let you lol. btfo."

    Fin

    What do you mean, theoretically?  We are having a fucking referendum on this issue in two months, what do you think happens if we vote to leave?  Do you think we'll actually have to stay?

    Repealing the European Communities Act 1972, which is what you've been talking about.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:05 pm

    The Zlatan wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:

    What do you mean, theoretically?  We are having a fucking referendum on this issue in two months, what do you think happens if we vote to leave?  Do you think we'll actually have to stay?

    Repealing the European Communities Act 1972, which is what you've been talking about.

    Do you think we won't repeal that act if we vote to leave in the referendum?  If you don't your analogy fails.  Us leaving is not theoretical, it is what is going to happen in reality if we vote for it.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:03 am

    ResurrectionRooney wrote:
    The Zlatan wrote:

    Repealing the European Communities Act 1972, which is what you've been talking about.

    Do you think we won't repeal that act if we vote to leave in the referendum?  If you don't your analogy fails.  Us leaving is not theoretical, it is what is going to happen in reality if we vote for it.

    You were arguing that we retain sovereignty because parliament can choose to stop abiding by EU law whenever it wants, which theoretically it can and without the input of the citizens. That is what the analogy is referring to.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:22 am

    The Zlatan wrote:
    ResurrectionRooney wrote:

    Do you think we won't repeal that act if we vote to leave in the referendum?  If you don't your analogy fails.  Us leaving is not theoretical, it is what is going to happen in reality if we vote for it.

    You were arguing that we retain sovereignty because parliament can choose to stop abiding by EU law whenever it wants, which theoretically it can and without the input of the citizens. That is what the analogy is referring to.
    We do and it can.  The fact that it chooses not to because it doesn't think it's in the country's interests doesn't mean the sovereignty doesn't exist.  Our government chooses not to nuke Argentina, doesn't mean it couldn't if it wanted to.


    I've adapted my analogy to fit your terms

    1975:
    "Hey son, I've signed us up to the golf club, two years ago.  We've been trying to get in for years, there are a few rules though so if you don't like it we leave"

    "That's fine Dad, I like golf and I don't mind the rules let's stay in"

    The family stays in

    2016:
    "The rules of this golf club have changed a lot, we have to do a lot more to stay in but we get to play a lot more golf.  All our friends want us to stay in though.  Are you still happy to stay in?"

    "Yes Dad, I think we should stay in"
    The family stays in

    "No Dad, I think we should leave"
    The family leaves

    So where's the loss of choice here?

    Sponsored content

    Re: EU Referendum

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:55 am