Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Share
    avatar
    Theo Filippo
     
     

    Formerly known as : Filippo Inzaghi
    Posts : 21636
    Age : 23

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Theo Filippo on Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:00 am

    Scott_LFC wrote:I'd take the 2005 Djimi Traore over Shaw. He has won the CL, afterall. And Shaw is merely a player who has done well for Southampton.
    Incorrect, he has done very well for England. Smile
    Glen Miller wrote:
    Theo Filippo wrote:Laughing I'd take a World Cup finalist over a player who did good for Southampton.

    Also Shaw is better than Moreno.
    I'll take the Europa League champion with 3 caps for Spain over the midtable mediocrity chaser with 3 caps for England.  Smile
    One has kept a clean sheet against the dark horses known as Costa Rica whereas one has kept a clean sheet against the average team that is Benfica. Smile
    avatar
    Zzonked
     
     

    Posts : 24277
    Age : 25

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Zzonked on Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:27 am

    Am I in some sick bizarro world where Theo is favouring an English player over a Spanish one?
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:37 am

    Scott_LFC wrote:Herrara = Can.

    scratch
    rofl

    You have never seen Emre Can play before.
    avatar
    Glen Miller
     
     

    Formerly known as : Glen Damon
    Posts : 7022
    Age : 21
    Location : PLAYMAKER
    Supports : PLAYMAKER

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Glen Miller on Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:39 am

    Zzonked wrote:Am I in some sick bizarro world where Theo is favouring an English player over a Spanish one?
     rofl

    It just shows the lengths people are going to in order to slate the Reds, their fearful trembles give me pleasure.  Smile


    Last edited by Glen Miller on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:20 am; edited 1 time in total

    Sean
     
     

    Posts : 33857
    Age : 23

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Sean on Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:44 am

    Even if you listen to South American journalists and experts they're amazed that Rojo is at United, indeed many fans were angry he was even in the Argentine squad at all. Not saying he can't have improved in that time, but it's definitely not a given he'll do well at United.
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:07 am

    Most journalists talk total bullshit. Their opinions are as important as anyone who watches the player, they just get paid to write about football. That's it. Their opinions don't carry more weight than someone who watches a player. Rojo was very good at the World Cup, he was Argentina's second best defender after Garay.
    avatar
    SBSP
     
     

    Posts : 50005

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by SBSP on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:11 am

    From what I've heard, he had a good season for Sporting too.
    avatar
    The Zlatan
     
     

    Posts : 10347

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by The Zlatan on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:24 am

    vel wrote:Most journalists talk total bullshit. Their opinions are as important as anyone who watches the player, they just get paid to write about football. That's it. Their opinions don't carry more weight than someone who watches a player. Rojo was very good at the World Cup, he was Argentina's second best defender after Garay.

    We should listen to you instead. not worthy
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:31 am

    I am never wrong when it comes to calcio. Smile

    Sean
     
     

    Posts : 33857
    Age : 23

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Sean on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:35 am

    vel wrote:Most journalists talk total bullshit. Their opinions are as important as anyone who watches the player, they just get paid to write about football. That's it. Their opinions don't carry more weight than someone who watches a player. Rojo was very good at the World Cup, he was Argentina's second best defender after Garay.

    I think I trust Tim Vickery's opinion over this guy Veela from a football forum.
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:41 am

    Tim Vickery rips from Globo Esporte

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:42 am

    vel wrote:Most journalists talk total bullshit. Their opinions are as important as anyone who watches the player, they just get paid to write about football. That's it. Their opinions don't carry more weight than someone who watches a player. Rojo was very good at the World Cup, he was Argentina's second best defender after Garay.
    So a journalists like Tim Vickery's opinion about a player's performance in a game carries just as much weight as the opinion of middle aged woman who's never watched football before?
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:51 am

    scratch I pluralised 'watches' for a reason, so obviously I was implying someone who watches a player more than once. If Tim Vickery were to write an article about Neymar at Barça, would his opinion carry more weight than someone who watches Barcelona on a regular basis? In my opinion, no. Unless the other person is retarded.

    Sean
     
     

    Posts : 33857
    Age : 23

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Sean on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:06 am

    vel wrote:scratch I pluralised 'watches' for a reason, so obviously I was implying someone who watches a player more than once. If Tim Vickery were to write an article about Neymar at Barça, would his opinion carry more weight than someone who watches Barcelona on a regular basis? In my opinion, no. Unless the other person is retarded.

    Yes because he is more qualified to pass judgement on the player, there are plenty of fans who go to every one of their teams games who are still idiots.

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:07 am

    I see you're still bitter about the Cavani debate  Rolling Eyes
     (joke)
    I'm sure Tim Vickery watches Neymar regularly. If average Joes like us do, then I'm sure someone that is paid to watch football will. Why wouldn't they? You're 19(?) and have other life obligations and yet you attest to being some footballing expert that watches numerous teams and players so why wouldn't someone who's job it is?

    I think your case here is that you disagree with some of what journalists say so it must mean their opinions are worthless or that you're on equal footing with them. Can you see the massive flaw in that argument?


    Last edited by Keyser Söze on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:17 am; edited 2 times in total

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:08 am

    Sean wrote:there are plenty of fans who go to every one of their teams games who are still idiots.
    Exactly.
    avatar
    Zzonked
     
     

    Posts : 24277
    Age : 25

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Zzonked on Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:58 am

    vel wrote:scratch I pluralised 'watches' for a reason, so obviously I was implying someone who watches a player more than once. If Tim Vickery were to write an article about Neymar at Barça, would his opinion carry more weight than someone who watches Barcelona on a regular basis? In my opinion, no. Unless the other person is retarded.

    Well the fact that he is paid for his opinion means there is the expectation that he should have a better insight than the average match goer. I would expect he'd think about what's going on more than most people.
    avatar
    Glen Miller
     
     

    Formerly known as : Glen Damon
    Posts : 7022
    Age : 21
    Location : PLAYMAKER
    Supports : PLAYMAKER

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Glen Miller on Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:58 am

    vel wrote:
    Scott_LFC wrote:Herrara = Can.

    scratch
    rofl

    You have never seen Emre Can play before.
    In all seriousness, what do you think of him?  I know that PES thinks that he is a donkey, but he says the same about Khedira.
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:46 pm

    How can a journalist be more qualified to pass judgement on a player than a fan? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that Tim Vickery has any sort of accreditation when it comes to football scouting or something along those lines.

    For example, in an interview with the FWA, Vickery said that he worked as a paper boy, shop assistant, labourer, comedy writer, box office attendant, theatre manager, and an English teacher before he got involved in football journalism.

    And according to his Wikipedia page (cannot confirm accuracy), this is how Vickery got into the calcio field:

    As a result, in 1994 having trained as a TEFL teacher, he left the UK and travelled to Brazil to teach the English language, learn the local language and immerse himself in Brazilian football. Supporting himself through his TEFL income, he started writing a series of articles for various Brazilian football fanzines.

    Obviously there are spastics who's opinions can't be trusted. I specify that clearly in the last sentence of my post you quoted.
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:01 pm

    Zzonked wrote:Well the fact that he is paid for his opinion means there is the expectation that he should have a better insight than the average match goer. I would expect he'd think about what's going on more than most people.
    Yes, you would definitely expect him to have more knowledge than others. Personally, I like to read some of his articles, they are very informative. He does his research well and he has a way with words unlike most writers. 

    But then you look at paid journalists writing in publications across the world, just putting across nonsense. And then you have to wonder why they are getting paid to write nonsense. On some of Michael Cox's articles on Zonal Marking, he gets corrected by normal fans and he accepts corrections. I remember someone going on a rant in one of his posts about Barça's switch to the 3-4-3 from 2012 when he exposed almost all of Cox's post as nonsense.

    http://allasfcb.blogspot.ca/

    This guy has a truly fantastic site when it comes to Barça, and almost all of his videos are great. He rarely updates it now though.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/futuwaki

    This Vietnamese (?) guy dubs Spanish analyses in English about certain things in La Liga, it's awesome. You will never see this coming from an English channel, I guarantee it. 

    These people don't get paid obviously, but they provide quality content. If it is quality, and you know that it is quality from experience, it doesn't matter if the person gets paid or not, I think. Carlo Garganese is the scum of the Earth and he gets a big salary, iirc.

    Obviously the important thing in your post is "most people". Most people don't actually watch calcio, they just watch people and a ball on their screen. Intelligent, handsome people like myself watch calcio.  Smile
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:16 pm

    Keyser Söze wrote:I see you're still bitter about the Cavani debate  Rolling Eyes
     (joke)
    I'm sure Tim Vickery watches Neymar regularly. If average Joes like us do, then I'm sure someone that is paid to watch football will. Why wouldn't they? You're 19(?) and have other life obligations and yet you attest to being some footballing expert that watches numerous teams and players so why wouldn't someone who's job it is?

    I think your case here is that you disagree with some of what journalists say so it must mean their opinions are worthless or that you're on equal footing with them. Can you see the massive flaw in that argument?
    Way to take my post the extreme.  Dry Smile 

    Just like with fans, many journalists report biased and incorrect information often. Just look at what started this original debate: Sean said that South American journalists and experts were amazed that Rojo was now a Man Utd player (implying he is not good enough), SBSP said that he heard (from journalists most likely) that Rojo had a good season.

    One of the journalists/experts are wrong in this case. I don't watch Sporting, but Rojo was great at the World Cup, Argentina's second best defender after Garay. It depends what the subject is about, really. You know very well that I like to lace my posts with healthy doses of hyperbole, but I don't think journalists should automatically be viewed as having a better insight than fans. Again, unless they are retarded.
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:16 pm

    look at what you fuckboys made me write on a Friday night after I was working for 6.5 hours

    fuk u

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Keyser Söze on Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:42 am

    vel wrote:How can a journalist be more qualified to pass judgement on a player than a fan? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that Tim Vickery has any sort of accreditation when it comes to football scouting or something along those lines.

    For example, in an interview with the FWA, Vickery said that he worked as a paper boy, shop assistant, labourer, comedy writer, box office attendant, theatre manager, and an English teacher before he got involved in football journalism.

    And according to his Wikipedia page (cannot confirm accuracy), this is how Vickery got into the calcio field:

    As a result, in 1994 having trained as a TEFL teacher, he left the UK and travelled to Brazil to teach the English language, learn the local language and immerse himself in Brazilian football. Supporting himself through his TEFL income, he started writing a series of articles for various Brazilian football fanzines.

    Obviously there are spastics who's opinions can't be trusted. I specify that clearly in the last sentence of my post you quoted.
    What accreditation does the fan have? At least Tim Vickery is respected by fellow writers, readers, executives in the various media outlets he works at and professionals in the game. All that is based on him bullshitting? Are they all wrong in respecting his opinion?

    Opinions in football are a dime a dozen. The best tend to rise to the top, if his opinions/articles were worthless then he wouldn't have been picked up all those years ago.

    vel wrote:
    Keyser Söze wrote:I see you're still bitter about the Cavani debate  Rolling Eyes
     (joke)
    I'm sure Tim Vickery watches Neymar regularly. If average Joes like us do, then I'm sure someone that is paid to watch football will. Why wouldn't they? You're 19(?) and have other life obligations and yet you attest to being some footballing expert that watches numerous teams and players so why wouldn't someone who's job it is?

    I think your case here is that you disagree with some of what journalists say so it must mean their opinions are worthless or that you're on equal footing with them. Can you see the massive flaw in that argument?
    Way to take my post the extreme.  Dry Smile 

    Just like with fans, many journalists report biased and incorrect information often. Just look at what started this original debate: Sean said that South American journalists and experts were amazed that Rojo was now a Man Utd player (implying he is not good enough), SBSP said that he heard (from journalists most likely) that Rojo had a good season.

    One of the journalists/experts are wrong in this case. I don't watch Sporting, but Rojo was great at the World Cup, Argentina's second best defender after Garay. It depends what the subject is about, really. You know very well that I like to lace my posts with healthy doses of hyperbole, but I don't think journalists should automatically be viewed as having a better insight than fans. Again, unless they are retarded.
    They don't necessarily have to be wrong. It's just a difference of opinion, if he backs it up with reasoning then it's fair game.

    Journalists aren't automatically correct. They aren't infallible, they just have opinions so it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's about how many people (intelligent) agree with you.

    If a journalist that regularly watches and writes about the Primeira Liga writes a piece about Rojo and 3 or 4 other (respected ones) write articles with similar opinions then it it's probably within reason to assume that opinion is correct. if a journalist that regularly watches and writes about the Primeira Liga writes a piece about Rojo and you some how sift through the morons and bias and see that most Primeira Liga supporters agree then it it's probably within reason to assume that opinion is correct. If a journalist that regularly watches and writes about the Primeira Liga writes a piece about Rojo and you have a 50/50 split then it's just a difference of opinion.

    Some journalists write articles to purely get a rise out of fans. Disagreement generates debate, debate generates more readers, more readers more money. But these types of  journalists become known fairly quickly and no one really respects them.

    In all honesty it's common sense. For popular leagues and players (BPL, La Liga ect...) unless you are a complete fucking spastic, you'll be able discern what opinion is right and what is wrong, there's enough content out their. For a little less popular leagues it takes some research but if you're willing to but the effort in you'll find the most widely accepted opinion.

    Actually, after reading this back, I've used descriptors like "intelligent", "spastic" and "respected" which are all subjective  think 

    Ok, I agree with you in saying that some of these niche fan run articles are sometimes more informative than professional articles and that journalists are wrong sometimes. But more often than not the opinions of "respected" people within football are broadly correct, especially if multiple people agree.
    avatar
    vel
     
     

    Posts : 899
    Location : DAT

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by vel on Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:29 am

    Keyser Söze wrote:Opinions in football are a dime a dozen. The best tend to rise to the top, if his opinions/articles were worthless then he wouldn't have been picked up all those years ago.
    +1 Great statement. I think that basically encapsulates the entire debate at hand.

    I don't think Tim Vickery's opinions are worthless mind, I think I've already said that he is a great writer. But if he were to write something about Gabigol for example, and then a Santos fan who's opinion that I personally find excellent says something otherwise, there is obviously a problem. I look at some of the PSG forums from time to time -- usually when I post PSG gifs -- and some of them completely disagree with the "Cavani out wide" concept.

    The opinions aren't really worthless (unless they are stupid) but it is crazy just how much opinions differ from 'expert' to 'expert'. Just look at how a lot of publications rated players at the World Cup from all across the world as a good example. Most journalists knee-jerk as much as most fans.
    avatar
    ResurrectionRooney
     
     

    Posts : 17673
    Supports : United

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by ResurrectionRooney on Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:52 am

    Di Maria confirmed.


    Scott_LFC
     
     

    Posts : 3237

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Scott_LFC on Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:02 am

    Great song.

    Scott_LFC
     
     

    Posts : 3237

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Scott_LFC on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:19 am

    Di Maria wrote:Unfortunately today I have to go, but I want to make clear that this was never my desire. As anyone who works, I’ve always wanted to progress. After winning “La Decima” I went to the World Cup with the hope of receiving a new contract, which never came. Many things and many lies were spoken. They always wanted to attribute the initiative to me to leave the club, but did not. The only thing I asked for is something that would be fair. There are many things that I value and many of them have nothing to do with my salary. I hope to progress at Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in the world, where I wish to make history.

    Jesus Christ. (In a letter to RM fans, btw)

    rofl
    avatar
    Weather130
     
     

    Posts : 4025
    Age : 29
    Location : Pittsburgh, PA

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Weather130 on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:23 am

    If United does not get things in order quick a 15th place finish in the Premier League should be expected.
    avatar
    Zzonked
     
     

    Posts : 24277
    Age : 25

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Zzonked on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:26 am

    Tbf I think Real dun goofed by replacing Di Maria with Rodriguez.
    avatar
    SBSP
     
     

    Posts : 50005

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by SBSP on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:26 am

    Weather130 wrote:If United does not get things in order quick a 15th place finish in the Premier League should be expected.
    rofl

    Sponsored content

    Re: Manchester United FC Official Thread

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:54 pm